...of war and politics in general because of Thucydides. Thucydides’ account of The History of the Peloponnesian War has taught us many things about how politics work in the modern world. (These last three sentences are a little repetitive and do not give a lot of information) One thing that Thucydides’ work on the Peloponnesian War has taught us is that states are only concerned with their own interests, and how their interests can benefit them (repetitive). Good! This is demonstrated in the conflict between Melos and Athens. Good! The Melians wanted to avoid conflict with Athens by trying to persuade them that the Athenians should not attack them because they were neutral and not allies to either side (Thucydides Book VI, p. 2). The Athenians did not comply with the Melians plea to maintain their territory. Instead, the Athenians offered the Melians an ultimatum to either surrender or be attacked (Thucydides Book VI, p.2 ). The Melians refused to surrender, and instead engaged in conflict with Athens to maintain their freedom and their territory, and as a result the island of Melos was attacked and ultimately destroyed (Thucydides Book VI, p. 5). The Athenians attacked Melos because they didn’t want to...
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...these falsities as we apply them to our own lives. Then, in evaluating the implications in Thucydides’ History, I will agree that it is natural human inclination to unjustly rule over others. I propose to argue my case by first describing human nature and it’s relationship with power and second to explain that with the absence of such conventions such as justice, human nature and overt power induce civil strife. In the “Melian Dialogue,” Thucydides provides a precise position on his view of human nature and its’ pair, power. He shows here that human nature is cruel and unjust and when it is not controlled and restrained, human nature will incline man to become possessive of those more weaker than him and thus pursue his own self-interest through greed. During the Melian Dialogue, the Melians declined the Athenians’ proposal that they submit to the Athenians. In this dialogue, Thucydides made clear that the superior will use his power as he pleases to subordinate the weak; the Athenians respond to the Melians saying “We will merely declare that we are here for the benefit of our empire, and we will speak for the survival of your city: we would like to rule over you without trouble, and preserve you for our mutual advantage” (104). Cleary here we see how human nature is presenting...
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...An Athenian general by the name of Thucydides was exiled out of Athens for losing a battle in about 500 BCE. After he left the city, he wrote about the dialogue between Melos and Athens called the Melian Dialogue. In Athens, 5th century BCE they were becoming an empire of ancient Greece. Alcibiades, who was also an Athenian general, was planning a trip over seas to take over Sicily. Athens needed money so they sailed all the way to an island called Melos to persuade them to pay the tribute. The Melian Dialogue is a conversation where Athens uses Rhetoric (the art of persuasive speaking) and argues the point of Physis (survival of the fittest) to persuade Melos into paying the tribute. In the end Melos doesn’t agree to pay the tribute and to be an ally with Athens so Athens takes over Melos, kills all the men, and sells all the women and children into slavery. Athens warned Melos and created a strong argument which makes Athens justified in what they did to the island of Melos. In the Melian Dialogue, Athens makes a strong argument around the idea of physis. “This is not an idea that we made ourselves, nor are we the first to act upon it when it was made. We found it already in existence, and we shall leave it to exist for ever among those who come after us” (Thucydides 105). In other words what Athens is saying is, we are not the first to act upon “Natural Law”, that the strong will do what they must do to stay in power for as long as possible. Therefore...
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...An Athenian general by the name of Thucydides was exiled out of Athens for losing a battle in about 500 BCE. After he left the city, he wrote about the dialogue between Melos and Athens called the Melian Dialogue. In Athens, 5th century BCE they were becoming an empire of ancient Greece. Alcibiades, who was also an Athenian general, was planning a trip over seas to take over Sicily. Athens needed money so they sailed all the way to an island called Melos to persuade them to pay the tribute. The Melian Dialogue is a conversation where Athens uses Rhetoric (the art of persuasive speaking) and argues the point of Physis (survival of the fittest) to persuade Melos into paying the tribute. In the end Melos doesn’t agree to pay the tribute and to be an ally with Athens so Athens takes over Melos, kills all the men, and sells all the women and children into slavery. Athens warned Melos and created a strong argument which makes Athens justified in what they did to the island of Melos. In the Melian Dialogue, Athens makes a strong argument around the idea of physis. “This is not an idea that we made ourselves, nor are we the first to act upon it when it was made. We found it already in existence, and we shall leave it to exist for ever among those who come after us” (Thucydides 105). In other words what Athens is saying is, we are not the first to act upon “Natural Law”, that the strong will do what they must do to stay in power for as long as possible. Therefore...
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...pride and interest, they will seek to expand their wealth until others, who are driven by similar desires, attempt to stop them. The Melian Dialogue, which dramatizes the dialogues regarding the negotiations amid the ambassadors of the Athenian (the invaders) and Melians (rulers), demonstrates this explicitly. The Athenians demanded their surrender, and entice said that if the tributes were not paid and they did not submit, their only other option was to be destroyed. The Athenians first attempt to entice to the Melians' sense of logic, stating the overpowering odds, while the Melians plea to the Athenians' fear of gods and sense of decency. In the Melian dialogue the Athenians say: “Nature always compels gods (we believe) and men (we are certain) to rule over anyone they can control” when confronted about how the gods would look to them, as they believed the gods “should be as much on (their) side as (Melians). Neither (their) principles nor (their) actions are contrary to what men believe about gods, or would want for themselves” (Thucydides v. 105, pg. 106). The Athens saw the notion of ruling wherever one can as a general and necessary law of nature. The Athenians makes known that maintaining their empire is their only concern and they attempt to persuade the Melians that it is in their best interest to surrender. Neither the Athenians nor the Melians were able to influence the other and the negotiations were then unsuccessful. The Athenians consequently occupied Melos and mercilessly...
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...Thucydides, in his History of the Peloponnesian War, attempts to create a lasting piece of literature to be used by future generations. He uses the Athenian empire as an example of how politics work, especially during times of war, and how they can change through speeches from major debates. Through these dialogues, Thucydides is able to characterize the Athenian empire as an imperialistic and arrogant force whose external popularity was awful and whose internal popularity gradually degraded as the war lingered on. One of the main questions that must be answered when determining the overall view of Athens is whether they were a tyranny or, what the Athenians believed, a democracy. At the outbreak of the war “so bitter was the general feeling...
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...view that human nature lacks morals, selfish, and seeks power. Philosophers who believe in such are, Machiavelli, Hobbes, and Thucydides (256). In Thucydides’ writings about the history of the Peloponnesian War between Sparta and Athens realism is evident. This is shown in the Melian Dialog. The Melian Dialog is between the neutral island city of Melo and invading Athens. Athens believes they have a right to the land of the Melians because Athens is a stronger, more powerful regime. They soon give an ultimatum of sorts to the Melians which is give up your land and be spared or fight for your land and be destroyed. Melians believed they should fight for their land in hopes that Sparta will come help defend their land. Athens is an example of the realist perspective that conflict will happen because of human nature and the desire for more power and strength, Athenians were power hungry. They believed that power alone could save their empire from outside forces. They were not concerned with other regimes and states. Melos believed and hoped the Spartan empire would come to their aid. Melians were mistake to believe that the Spartans would come to their defense due to Athens superior army and navy. Melians believed that honor would be enough encouragement and hope that they could beat the Athenians. They did end up defeating the Melos, but would end up losing the war. The other topic discussed is the Revolution of Corcyraeans. These revolutions were a power struggle between two...
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...The use of force by those who are permitted to command power can be handled in ways that can either help or harm society as a whole. The ways in which force is dictated directly correlates to the problem of violence within society among the works of Sophocles’ Antigone, Plato’s Republic and Thucydides’ History of the Peloponnesian War. Creon from Sophocles’ Antigone, Thrasymachus from Plato’s Republic and the Melian Dialogue from Thucydides’ History of the Peloponnesian War all illustrate how force can be used for personal gain. The characters involved in these three works evidently reveal that those who are awarded with the utmost power may not always be the people who deserve the right to make decisions. Creon, from Sophocles’ Antigone, is a prime...
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...Thucydides versus Plato Thucydides versus Plato on the nature of the Good Life Plato and Thucydides both had strikingly different views on their approach on the good life. Some have claimed that Plato is making normative claims, whereas Thucydides is making empirical claims. Let's start by taking a look at Plato. Plato's theory on the good life was based on the belief that everything has an objective or use that is typically suited for virtue, beauty, justice, and excellence of the precise thing, and everything will depend on the completion of that role. He considers the good life as being attained through the perfect love and lack of desire. Plato views the good life as the condition a person exhibits total virtue. Virtue tends to come from the absence of desires, or expectations , so true happiness means being pleased to the point one doesn’t have desires. He’s convinced that everyone has the power to be virtuous. He also believed the man and citizen are the creation of the City; they are it’s property (like slaves) and it’s children, and the individual has no right to assert individual rights against the City. In his case justice is accepted as a compromise, and valued, not as good in itself, but for lack of power to do wrong; no man worthy of the name, who had that power, would ever enter into such a compact with anyone; he would be mad if he did. The general in the Athenian army and a greek historian, Thucydides believed the good life was self-sufficient;...
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...the war. Thucydides is seen as a ‘proto-realist’, one of the first realists in the study of politics that wrote in a more theoretical sense, as well as the founding father of International Relations. His study on the History of the Peloponnesian War provides awareness of the conflict and various analyses on the causes of the war by observing the strategic interaction between the states, hierarchy amongst the states along with legitimacy and levels of power to determine the pattern of their relations. Although there are undeniably numerous differences between Thucydides era and our world system today, Thucydides persists to influence contemporary international relations, namely Realism, with many realists frequently referring to the Melian Dialogue when advocating a power-based approach. With Thucydides often portraying insights into human nature, many scholars use his findings as a guide that is still relevant today due to the generality of self-interest, fear and power maximisation that still occurs as it did previously. Thucydides’ relevance today has been greatly perceived through his impact upon political realism in his studies concerning the concept of power politics. Whilst political realism expresses the view that international relations is the battle of self-interested states that are involved in the struggle of power politics within a permanent moral-free state of anarchy, Thucydides’ work denotes that international relations is anarchical and dissolute. When analysing...
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...Humanities I: Essay #1 The Unstable Mind of Cruelty Cruelty is a biological instinct that is programmed in all of humanity. Instincts are lead by the deprivation of needs; that of which we need we find. A fundamental and intrinsic need of all human beings is the approval of yourself and the approval of others. To doubt oneself or be disapproved by others can lead to an unstable self-image. Insecurities of physicality and emotional vulnerability, can lead to behaviors of aggression to those who stand as a threat to your own acceptance and mar the opinion of others. Lack of acceptance by others can lead to a fear that others will exploit you. Fragmentation is the term used to describe the collapse and break down that you will not be accepted at all of normal thought, behavior or social relationships. Heinz Kohut a Freudian psychoanalyst describes fragmentation as the “feeling of coming unglued”; the source of the occurrence of aggressive and sadistic behavior. These behaviors lead to the infliction of pain and suffering, otherwise known as cruelty (Kroeger). Cruelty is seen as a defense mechanism to those seeking to assert eminence to create their own sense of order. Ancient Greece’s strict religious guidelines and lack of societal conformity has led to an abuse of the justification of cruelty. People are demoralized by there own instinctual drive for indulgences. Although today society has suppressed our inherited intuitions of mankind they do still exist. From...
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...Many have proclaimed that Plato is making normative claims whereas, Thucydides is making empirical claim. I will address Thucydides versus Plato on the nature of the Good Life, as well as the truth about Thucydides. Thucydides and Plato have different views in their approach to the good life. Thucydides empirical claims , and dismissal of “right & justice” is best known from his famous writings “ The Peloponnesian war.” Whereas, Plato’s normative claims is best known in his writings in “The Republic.” In the Republic Plato states that the proper function of a man is his soul, to live with justice and obtain a harmonious life. The basic concept of Plato's theory about the good life is built on the concept that everything has a purpose, a job, a function. Plato believed that a man’s role is determine by nature, and man cannot decide for themselves what their function may be. In the Republic Plato discusses the proper use of function of man. It is his soul and to live with justice, and obtain a sense of harmony and unity. Lisa H. Newton stated,“in the greatest of all works of philosophy, Plato offers an elegant proof of the proposition: that whether or not the world recognizes and rewards virtue, the just person is the happiest of human beings.” However, I find in today’s society that most just people are not the wealthiest people. Somehow it is a trade off: just and poor, unjust wealthy. Thucydides would definitely disagree with the idea of universal truth of what...
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...battles. This book also talks about the battle at Amphipolis. “In the battle of Amphipolis in 422, Brasidas lays out a plan in logic for two waves of attack. This two-wave strategy specifically inculcates fear.” (Peterson) This was the battle that resulted in Thucydides getting exiled. He doesn’t linger on this subject much. This book ends with the Athenians struggling again. Book five includes some major deaths. These deaths include the death of Cleon and the Spartan general Brasidas. There is also some discussion about the eight year peace and Thucydides did an impressive job of how he broke down this peace. On another note, the most important thing that should be taken from this chapter is the Melian Dialogue. This dialogue justifies the historian inclusion for Thucydides. This dialogue projects how difficult it is for smaller powers to challenge stronger powers in war. Book six displays the Athenian assembly having an absence of perspective. This absence was the fact that Athens had a mass of troops moving towards Sicily. A man by the name of Nicias. Nicias was a wealthy Athenian politician and he was also a general during this war. He was against the idea of the expedition towards Sicily. He understood the amount of resources that would be required to make this expedition and tried to convince the Athenian assembly to withdraw the idea. The assembly responded by sending him away which I am sure was regrettable for them shortly after. The Athenians ended up losing many troops...
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...Confidently, Thrasymachus challenges Socrates, where he states that “justice is simply the interest of the stronger” (35). This belief implies a positive connotation where the group with the most physical power can decide on justice. In a democracy, a majority rule equates to a policy best suited for its country; comparatively, a definition of justice produced by the many must be considered ideal for the community. This traditionalist view relates back to the Melian Dialogue and how the stronger should rule. Whether it be physical strength or political power, the stronger will always equate to justice. Outwardly, Thrasymachus’s definition provides the most preferred rationale in comparison to Celphalus and Polemarchus’s thoughts. However, the complication with Thrasymachus’s denotation, stems from the ubiquitous changes in the beliefs of the majority. Socrates believes justice should be a permanent concept, though the different fluctuation of power within society, Thrasymachus’s idea provides flaws. Even if the majority does not produce the rules, the ones that create the laws “may sometimes be mistaken about their best interests and that their laws may reflect it” (37). Socrates reveals the power over...
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...I-Introduction: The term "realism" was first used to formulate the philosophical doctrine that "universals exist outside of the mind" (Freyberg-Inan, 1). Yet, in political theory, "realism" represents a school of thought that analyzes the political process as it is or as it is disclosed by historical forces " ... that the able political practitioner takes into account ... and incorporates ... into his political conceptions and his political acts "(Ibid, 1-2). In the field of international relations, realism became the dominant analytical paradigm mostly after the start of the Second World War, when it displaced idealist doctrines, promising "to provide more accurate information, more powerful, and more relevant answers" to the roots or causes of peace and war (Brecher& Harvey, 54). At the same time, many features of the current realist paradigm can be traced back to the time of Thucydides, Niccolo Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes. Among contemporary thinkers recognized as major writers and contributors to the realist tradition are Hans Morgenthau, Edward Carr and Kenneth Waltz (Freyberg-Inan, 8). What are then the basic tenets or common features of a realist thinker? Machiavelli would acknowledge that to be a realist one has to look at history as "a sequence of cause and effect whose course can be analysed and understood by intellectual effort, but not directed by imagination" (Carr, 64). Hobbes would persist in the same train of thought and insist that to be a realist thinker...
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